IBD??

[edf]

First thing I want to say- I am not sure where to post this, I know its a health issue- but its not really partaining to corn snakes.... so I assumed it should be placed either under the boa section or the python section ( of all the reading I have just done in the past several hours, it effects pythons and boas, not known to affect corns) So pardon my confusion if this should be under health issues even tho its not about corn snakes.

Ok, it's been a while since I posted ( many appologies about that- in all honesty, I just do that with all forums I join, go for periods of inactivity)
This may be the most rediculous post of me yet- I, personally, am not a hypocondriac to myself, but I am a hypocondriac to my snakes. I read something, and I think my snakes have it.

I just aquired a boa ( she is lovey) after doing much reasearch online. While I was shopping for hide boxes I picked up a red tailed boa book. I read care sheets online and looked through several forums ( i did look here too, just no posting). I like to have actual books as well , heck, one could never have too much info. I have a book on pythons as well, and it did not mention anything on IBD ( Inclusion Body Desease). After reading the symptoms consisting of chronic regurging, neurological disorders, 'stargazing' ( snakes constantly looking up) head tremors, disorientation and lack of coordination. After I read this section, I look over to my boa- and of course- she is looking up. ( but her head is resting on the glass.)
So, I spaz out and go running into th espare bedroom where my ball pythons are housed, fearing, of course, that they are looking directly up. They weren't, but I run back out to the living room and read through the symptoms again.

Head tremors.... anyone familair with this disease and know what they exactly mean by head tremors? I did see my baby python's head shake a few times recently when I enetered the room. ( only saw this on one occasion, but I don't look at my snakes 24 hours a day, i wish i could ) And I was sure of it because I was questioning it ( the snake was not shaking uncontrolably, head just moved and it was not turnin gits head to look around) Of course being the complete worry wart that I am, I go storming over to the cage- but I trip on a pile of random junk and nearly loose my balance. by the time I looked up again at my baby snake, he/she already pulled its head back into the hide box ( heck, I would have been terrified- I must have sounded like a stampede of elephants the way I crashed into my closet doors) But I peeked into the hide box, and th esnake was just resting its head, no shaking or anything. I didnt think anything of it until I just read the section about this disease. I did give this snake a bath several times, the first time I gave this baby python a bath, for it was about to shed. This was probably the first time its been given a bath I am assuming, and I remember laughing as it did some flips in the water ( rolling from side to side, not head to tail). So, of couse I am fearing that this is signs of my snake lacking coordination. But I am aware that hey, its swimming and its a young snake, and I probably gave it too much water to swim in, instead it should have been enough for the snake to be able to still slither on the bottom. But, I always worry for the worst.

Anwyays, I look at my boa once again, and she now is looking straight up, not resting her head on the glass, not moving, just staring.

All my snakes have great grips ( especially the boa! i was surprised at how strong she was), all appear to be healthy. I never had a regurge, but my snakes do look up. They are not looking up constantly, but there are times when they are exploring their cages, and they always look up and crawl upwards.
What exactly do they mean by stargazing? I know its rediculous to think just because my snake looks up that it may have a disease, but is stargazing when they look up for long periods at a time? or when their heads are always up- like when they are crawling, their heads are pointed straight up?

Anyways, like I said, I worry about every little thing. If I cough, I don't think I am comming down with a fatal disease, if my snake looks up, I fear its gonna die. There is hypocondria at its worst.

:sigh: I am aware that I am probably making a mountain out of an ant hill. The boa I got today was mite free, in great condition, so feeding problems ( i didnt feed her yet, but the pet store, actually, reptile store, and they are good- very knowledgeable and animals in great condition, they fed her and had no regurges) She flicks her tounge and is active. I have no logical reason to really believe she has any illness other then the fact that I get extremely paraniod about anything. ( yeah, I am a rather ancie person in real life)

any info would be appreciated- weather it would be advice to determine if its possible my snakes have th edesease or just consolation that I am over worring would be greatly appreciated.

** Info on the disease, links here
redtailboas.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27703
this poor guy lost his collection of snakes to this disease :*(

egads

edf

[edf]

ok... I did just look into the health issues and saw peeps post questions about health related issues of other snakes that are not corn snakes. I am sorry about posting in the wrong section. I'll read more closely next time b4 posting so quick.

edf

[John Pilling]

Ok, calm down and ask yourself those questions.

1, is the snake eating regularry?
2, is the snake regurgatating, and if it has does it do it after every feed?
3, when the snake is against the glass and looking up, does it move when you go over to the viv, or if you open the door to feed or handle? If their is any movement (even just a mm) then it's not stargazing, it's just comfortable.

Zeus also coils infront of her viv sometimes doors sometimes and rests her head on the glass door, she always moves her head when she see's someone coming and gets ready to come out.

[edf]

I havent fed the boa yet, but I kept an eye on her the past nights, and she moves. Her looking up never lasts really long.

My pythons are feeding and no regurging.

I was really paniky that night, and i have reread my post several times an dyes, it was one of my classic spaz attacks.

I also read in several forums stargazing is concernable when its for looong periods of time and they fall over backwards... either way, I havent noticed her looking up for extreme periods of time, and she may not move when I look in her cage, but if I open her cage she moves, but i never opened it when she wa slooking up. ( instead I post a over paranoid post here... LOL)

Anyways, my most sencere apologies for freaking out in here. I realized that my snakes are not regurging ( the boa didnt have regurg problems at the store, they said feeding always went fine)

I was just scared because in my pyhton handlbook it did not say anything about IBD, and when I ought a boa handguide, it said stuff and it was transferable to pythons and boas.

Me an dmy b/f talked, and he thought I was going overboard- especialy since we had no regurges. But I did fully explain to him what to look for just in case.

Once again, i appologize for spazing, it really makes me look stupid and immature. I need to learn to keep control of my fears better, even if my snakes were regurging. Paniking only causes more problems, I do realize that. I'll just keep this as a lesson learned. Its ok to question if your snakes got a questionable desiease, but one has to keep a cool head on themselves at all times.
In a few months, I'll look back at this, and laugh.

Thanx a ton John for your responce, and for your tolerance of me and my outlandish posts!

I'll keep ya posted about my boa's feeding. Right now I am letting her get used to her new home and such. I will feed her later in the week. I am not anticipating any problems, at least not until I try to switch her over to f/t.

edf

[John Pilling]

No worries, if you have a problem, or think their is 1 i'd rather you post and be told everything sound normal (which it did, just wanted to make sure by asking about the head on the doors).

As to feeding the Boa, how big is it? If beg enough i would suggest a rat rather then a mouse as they have a higher nutrition value for boa's (and pythons aswell). As to switching to f/t, if it doesn't strike feed don't worry, leave the food item overnight and see if it gets eaten, if not just try again 7 days later. You might have to do this for 4-5 weeks, but don't worry as this is normal for a lot of snakes in general, but saying that most boa's will take a f/t first or second try after being on live, with a small percentage waiting longer untill they are really hungrey. Thing to remember is most boa's have a very very big appitite and arn't usually fussy eaters (except the odd 1 which may develop IBD, which is a very very small percentage anyway).

Let me know how things go.

[edf]

Heya John,
I didnt get to measure her yet, she is aprox 5 feet already, way to big for mice! Yeah, I read they suggest you buy boas when they are young, but the store had a great deal since they are going under, and I don't know what they were going to do w/ her if they didnt sell her. ( it sounded like they were going tohouse all unsold pets, but I was thinking about a boa fo ra bit, and decided to give her a home that doesn't have tons of animals) She is on large rats, maybe even jumbo ones. When I pick out a rat, I am going to get one that is th esize of her thickest girth, like I do w/ my other snakes. Yeah, rats are much more nutritious. ( I am going to order some frozen rat pinkies for my baby ball python, would be more nutritious. when I bought her, the owner said either mice hopers or rat pinkies, and since I sucsessfully got the ball eating frozen/thawed several times, time to order! no pet store around me sells rat pinkies...) Ok back on topic now. Fo rth eboa I am going to do th efirst feeding prekilled. That is what they have been doing at th epet store, and since this will be my frist feeding for her, i want to keep things the same, less stress for her. I willprobably buy 2 rats, prekill the one, and freeze the other. I'll try the frozen thawed one next time ( unless there are issues w/ the prekilled ones, but the store had no problems feeding her. And I am used to pythons, so I am sure I can get her to eat. ( actually, I dont really have much issues w/ the pythons, but now that I said that, i prolly will...lol)
I'll keep ya posted. I was thinking midweekish to feed her.
edf

[John Pilling]

If the boa's on already on p/k, then f/t shouldn't be a problem at all, just let it defrost and warm up to room temp (i leave mine in an empty viv with a 40 watt heat light in it, really warms the fur and skin to live level). I do this for all 11 of my snakes food and have never had a problem. As to size, i would say large size untill after christmass, then take it from their. My zeus (the little 1) is just 6foot shed size and has just started on large rats (had 3 so far) and i am planning on moving her to x-large towards the end of jan, or after another 2 sheds, which ever comes first.

BTW, now i know the size of the boa, IBD is not an issue, and will not be a problem now as most boa's have this problems as little ones, usually less then 6 monthes old, so rest easy.

[edf]

hmm... I would have guessed a larger size rat.. but then again, I havent really looked at her girth much lately. I could also just be used to my full grown python. I'll stick with a large rat, but I'll get a more accurate measurement before I buy a food item.
:whew: now that i don't have to worry about IBD ( at least not as much, still gonna keep th esymptoms in mind just in case, just as I would for symptoms of RI and mites and ect.



edf

[John Pilling]

It does depend on the girth of the snake, i know my Dave when about 6ft shed size was about 4 inches in diamiter, where as zeus is now 6 ft 2 inches shed, and about 3 inches in diamiter (spine to belly, not girth, lol). But he's almost fully grown and is putting the weight on now, whereas zeus is still growing and averyaging 3-5 inches in lenght per shed (last 5 sheds anyway, so is still growing strong in lengh before filling out).